HIGH GEAR/AUGUST 1977

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RFL: One of the big problems that many people point out with having a homosexual relationship is "How can you inflict that upon the children? Think of all the problems that it's going to cause them." Did you experience anything like that?

AF: We thought about it and what would happen in the event that someone found out. We felt that the love that we offered the children and the love that we

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had for each other would somehow help the situation. The psychologist stated on the stand that even with our present public image, that the love in our family and the love we have for the children is important and it's important for them to live in that relationship. Again, even if we had been very open, no matter where the children lived they would have had to deal with our homosexuality whether they lived with their father a thousand miles away or with another relative. This psychologist felt that it was important if they

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were thriving, living happily, loving, in a relationship that they were comfortable in. It is best to try to understand a relationship that is maybe an alternative lifestyle from within that family unit, as opposed to on the outside with negative influences looking in because they were much more confused in that situation. MJR: But then Jimmy was, I think the jury would like to say that, Jimmy was one of the factors why, they removed Richard from my house in that Jimmy testified that he was embarrassed about my lifestyle. For nine months he remained with us and then he moved in with my mother after he received an automobile from his father. Two weeks later I received a citation stating that I was a homosexual. This young man let me know at a later time that he told his father I was homosexual. Jimmy and his grandmother lived with each other for nine months. I think there was a negative input from both of them, concerning homosexuality. I did lose contact with my mother for about four months, in that she became very very negative toward my lifestyle.

RFL: Before Jimmy left home to live with his grandmother, how did the three children adjust? As you view it what was their reaction to your relationship?

MJR: Well, as far as Jimmy, Jimmy knew of our homosexual friends. In fact, at one period of his time with us, he made the remark that our homosexual

friends treated him better than his own father. On one occasion Jimmy wanted to go to Mexico on a vacation with two of our homosexual friends and one of the women's three children. So, it was very close. Jimmy associated with our friends. Whatever girl he was going with at the time was invited to cook outs, steak dinners, what have you and would always attend. Jimmy told us on one occasion that he had told one of his girl friends of our homosexuality and her remark was, "Well Jimmy, that makes no difference to me. I'm not going with your mother; I am going with you." This was the attitude of the boys and girls that he ran around with.

AF: I think Richard was so young that he immediately fell into the fact that it was a loving situation where he had lots of attention. And I think Judie Ann did know of our homosexuality and she understood the situation. She had the support of her father too, to a great degree and I think she felt since she loved Mary Jo, she felt a lot for Richard and Jimmy.

RFL: I'm still not clear as to what evidence was presented at the trial to show that you were not a good mother.

AF: It's not clear to us either. MJR: At no time did they ever prove me an unfit mother or did they ever prove that Ann would be unfit for Richard to be around. To the contrary, we had many witnesses that went on the stand our behalf. We had ed-

ucators to show that the children's educational process was uppermost in our minds. We had doctors and dentists to go on the stand to testify that medical attention was upper most in our mind too. I'm past president of the Dallas County Council of Parent Teacher Associations. Children have always played a very important part in my life. We felt that when we presented our back ground and our present status of living and what we did for the children, that that should be sufficient for this jury to judge us. It Iwas very sad that they did not view this and that it was the homosexuality that was on trial. The foreman of the jury, a former Dallas Cowboy football player, who was one of those that voted for me, said that no matter what they discussed in the jury room about the educators and doctors, there were always those that would say, But let's do not forget she is lesbian."

RFL: What about the witnesses that your husband presented? Were there just two? AF: Right, he put a Baptist minister on the stand and a family counselor who was not a registered or certified psychologist, he did not have a license; he was a Baptist family counselor. It was almost fundamentalist religion verses education and a more sophisticated religion. (We had an Episcopal chaplain go on the stand for us.) Religion did play a very large part in that trial.

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